The Issue The issue for determination is whether the application for an initial license to operate an Adult Family Care Home ("AFCH") should be denied because the applicant submitted fraudulent or inaccurate information in the application.
Findings Of Fact Petitioner is owned by Ms. Marvell Lawton, R.N. (the "applicant"). On June 3, 1996, the applicant applied for a license to operate an AFCH at 550 East Division Street, Deland, Florida (the "facility"). Respondent is the state agency responsible for licensing AFCHs. Respondent requires several documents to be submitted with the application including: a Florida Department of Health and Rehabilitative Services ("HRS") Community Residential Homes Sponsor Certification Form (the "HRS Form"); a statement by the local zoning office that the facility is properly zoned (the "zoning approval"); and a fire inspection report. The applicant altered the HRS Form, the zoning approval, and the fire inspection report to indicate that the facility was approved for a maximum capacity of five residents. Respondent initially denied the license application solely on the basis of the fire inspection report. However, the basis of denial was amended to include the HRS Form and the zoning approval pursuant to an order entered by Judge Stephen F. Dean on October 16, 1996. By letter dated July 11, 1996, Respondent notified the applicant that her application was denied. The letter stated, in relevant part, that the specific basis for denial was: . . . Submission of fraudulent or inaccurate information to the agency. The fire safety inspection report submitted with the application package was altered to indicate approval for five residents when the fire marshal's office had only approved three residents. The local fire marshal's office has verified that the original approval was for three residents because Ms. Lawton did not want to install a manual alarm system which is required for four or five residents. Submission of fraudulent or inaccurate information to the agency is grounds for denial of the AFCH application, s. 400.619(11)(e),F.S. On April 2, 1996, the applicant obtained a fire inspection report from the City of Deland Fire Department (the "Fire Department"). The fire inspection report limited the maximum capacity of the facility to three residents because the applicant did not have the manual alarm system required for four or five residents and did not wish to install such a system. The applicant altered the fire inspection report that she submitted with her application. She changed the number "3" to a "5" so that the fire inspection report appeared to approve the facility for a maximum capacity of five residents. As part of its review of the application, Respondent attempted to verify the fire inspection report included in the application by calling the Fire Department. When the Fire Department did not verify that the maximum capacity was five residents, Respondent obtained a copy of the original fire inspection report from the Fire Department. On March 22, 1996, the applicant obtained a zoning approval from the City of DeLand stating that the maximum capacity of the facility is three residents. The applicant added the phrase "to 5" after the number "3" in the zoning approval so that the zoning approval authorized a maximum capacity of "3 to 5" residents. On June 3, 1996, the applicant submitted the HRS Form to Respondent. The applicant amended the portion of the HRS Form requiring a designation of capacity for facilities with six or fewer residents as well as that for facilities with 7-14 residents. The latter category does not apply to Petitioner. The applicant did not submit fraudulent information to Respondent. The applicant did not intend to defraud Respondent. She misunderstood the application process. The facility has space for only three residents. It is physically impossible to house more than three residents in the facility. The applicant would have gained nothing from an authorized capacity of more than three residents. The applicant's refusal to add the manual alarm system required for four or five residents is consistent with the facility's limit of three residents. The applicant assumed that Respondent's minimum license category is for a license of 1-5 residents. The applicant altered the HRS Form, the zoning approval, and the fire inspection report under the mistaken belief that the capacity designation in each document should conform to the maximum capacity in Respondent's license category. In the HRS Form, the applicant even altered the licensed capacity for facilities with 7-14 residents. The applicant mistakenly submitted inaccurate information to Respondent within the meaning of Section 400.619(11)(e), Florida Statutes.1 The maximum licensed capacity of the facility must be consistent with fire safety requirements for the welfare of the residents. The licensed capacity of the facility must also conform to applicable zoning laws.
Recommendation Based upon the foregoing Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, it is RECOMMENDED that Respondent enter a Final Order and thereinGRANT a license to operate an AFCH for three residents. RECOMMENDED this 21st day of February, 1997, in Tallahassee, Florida. DANIEL MANRY Administrative Law Judge Division of Administrative Hearings The DeSoto Building 1230 Apalachee Parkway Tallahassee, Florida 32399-3060 (904) 488-9675 SUNCOM 278-9675 Fax Filing (904) 921-6847 Filed with the Clerk of the Division of Administrative Hearings this 21st day of February, 1997.
The Issue Whether Respondent's renewal facilities licensure application for a group home contained a falsified fire inspection report, as alleged in the Administrative Complaint; and, if so, what is the appropriate penalty?
Findings Of Fact APD is the state agency charged with regulating the licensing and operation of foster care facilities, group home facilities, residential habitation centers, and comprehensive transitional education programs pursuant to sections 20.197 and 393.067, Florida Statutes. Rivero is an applicant for renewed licensure of a group home facility in Dania Beach, Florida. At all times material to the Administrative Complaint, Yitzhak Rivero was a corporate officer of Rivero. Mr. Rivero, was a psychiatrist in Cuba treating patients with mental and intellectual disabilities before he moved to the United States and became a citizen. He became a licensed mental health counselor, and for the past ten years has operated group homes in an effort to serve disabled persons, owning as many as seven group homes, employing 30 people at one time, and currently owning and operating three licensed group homes. On June 20, 2019, Sally Vazquez, then administrator for Rivero, submitted a license renewal application on behalf of Rivero’s Dania Beach group home to APD by hand delivering it to APD employee Patricia White, who was on the premises. On that same day, fire inspectors were also at the Dania Beach property to conduct an inspection. Prior to submitting the renewal application and supporting documents to APD on June 20, 2019, Ms. Vazquez prepared the application and compiled or prepared the supporting documents in the renewal application. The handwriting on pages 1 through 11 of the renewal application is that of Ms. Vazquez. Ms. Vazquez is listed as backup manager supervisor for Rivero on page 7 of the renewal application. After Ms. Vazquez prepared the renewal application and compiled the supporting documents, Mr. Rivero, as the group home owner, did a brief review of the application and supporting documents before he signed it. Before he signed it, Mr. Rivero identified nothing unusual in the application packet. When Mr. Rivero signed the attestation on the renewal application, which read, “Under penalty of perjury…all information contained in and submitted with application is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge,” he believed that the information in the application and supporting documents was true and correct. Unbeknownst to Mr. Rivero, the renewal application contained a document purporting to be a fire inspection report dated May 1, 2019, that was falsified. Mr. Rivero did not know the fire inspection was false when he reviewed the renewal application and signed it on June 7, 2019, or when Ms. Vazquez submitted it to APD on behalf of Rivero on June 20, 2019. In fact, the only email or communication Mr. Rivero received about the Dania Beach group home in regard to fire safety was a June 20, 2019, email sent by Fire Inspector Braun at 12:49 p.m., stating it was “From: Broward Sheriff’s Office Fire Rescue,” identified by the subject, “Inspection Report,” which contained an attachment related to the Dania Beach home from “Broward Sheriff’s Office Fire Rescue” bearing the agency’s logo that stated: “An annual fire inspection of your occupancy revealed no violations at the time of this inspection. Thank you for your commitment to maintaining a fire safe occupancy.” On August 21, 2019, when asked in an email from APD representative Kimberly Carty to provide the fire inspection report for Rivero, Mr. Rivero forwarded the email he had received from the Broward Sheriff’s Office Fire Rescue indicating no violations, the only fire inspection report for this home he had ever received, and the only fire inspection report regarding this property of which he was aware. On August 23, 2019, Ms. Carty sent Mr. Rivero a fire inspection report showing violations noted from the June 20, 2019, fire safety inspection of the Dania Beach group home. The report notes six, of what fire safety inspector Craig Braun described as less serious, non “critical-life” violations. Rivero was given 30 days to correct the violations.1 The day after he was sent the full fire inspection report for the Rivero Dania Beach group home, Mr. Rivero corrected the “easily corrected,” relatively minor violations in approximately three hours. Mr. Rivero then contacted the fire department to re-inspect the facility. When no fire inspector came to re-inspect for over a month, on September 30, 2019, Mr. Rivero sent an email to Mr. Zipoli, the fire inspector who had signed the inspection report showing the minor violations. Nevertheless, the fire department has never re-inspected the facility. Fire Prevention Officers Braun and Zipoli testified unequivocally and without contradiction that the document Mr. Rivero forwarded to APD’s Kimberly Carty on August 23, 2019 (the document indicating, “An annual fire inspection of your occupancy revealed no violations at the time of this inspection”), was a genuine and authentic document. Further, Officer Braun indicated that on June 20, 2019, he was Officer Zipoli’s supervisor, and that on that date Officer Braun and Zipoli “went together to inspect the Rivero Group Home.” “[U]sually…just [one] fire safety inspector goes,” and it was “not the norm” for two fire safety inspectors to go together. In this unusual situation, Fire Safety Inspector Zipoli wrote the report of the June 20, 2019, inspection, and Fire Safety Inspector Braun “wrote a report,” a separate report, indicating that he “assisted him [Zipoli] on another 1 These violations included: front and rear door of the group home (two doors) had a key lock instead of a “simple thumb turn or something that does not require special knowledge”; a fire alarm needed to be updated with its annual fire inspection from a private contractor; a fire extinguisher needed to be mounted on its mounting on the wall instead of placed on the ground beneath the mounting; the fire extinguisher needed to have its annual certification updated for 2019; the smoke detector located in the kitchen needed to be moved to a different location. form.” It was this other form that Officer Braun completed--this fire safety “Inspection Assist” for--that was emailed to Mr. Rivero on June 20, 2019. It was this form that stated, “[a]n annual fire inspection of your occupancy revealed no violations at the time of this inspection.” Officers Braun and Zipoli confirmed that the Broward Sheriff’s electronic streamline system “had a ‘glitch,’” “a default problem at that time,” the period including June 20, 2019, that caused the “template of an assist” ( i.e., an Inspection Assist form) to generate the statement indicating, “[a]n annual fire inspection of your occupancy revealed no violations at the time of this inspection,” and the system gave fire safety inspectors no option or ability to remove this statement. When APD’s Kimberly Carty requested that Mr. Rivero send the most recent fire inspection report for the Rivero Dania Beach group home, Mr. Rivero forwarded to Ms. Carty the document he received on June 20, 2019, from Broward Sheriff’s Office Fire Rescue without altering or changing the document in any way. The first time Mr. Rivero was notified that the fire inspection report submitted with the renewal application at issue here was false was when he received the Administrative Complaint in this case on October 23, 2019. In addition to the June 20, 2019, document Mr. Rivero received from Broward Sheriff’s Office Fire Rescue that indicated “no violations,” and the fire inspection report indicating six violations that was sent to Mr. Rivero by APD on August 23, 2019, this case involves a document dated May 1, 2019, purporting to be a Broward Sheriff’s Office Fire Rescue fire inspection that was fabricated (“the false fire inspection report”). The false fire inspection report was submitted to APD by Ms. Vazquez during APD’s June 20, 2019, inspection of the Rivero’s Dania Beach group home. At the time she submitted the application with the false fire inspection report, Ms. Vazquez had worked for Rivero for at least six years, and for at least two years as an administrator for between four and seven group homes. At the time she submitted the application at issue in this case to APD, Ms. Vazquez had prepared more than 20 APD renewal applications for Mr. Rivero’s group homes. In short, Ms. Vazquez was a “trusted employee,” whom Mr. Rivero relied on to accurately prepare applications and the documents submitted with the applications, and to handle the inspections conducted by APD. After Mr. Rivero learned, by receiving the Administrative Complaint in this case on October 23, 2019, that an altered or falsified document had been submitted as a fire inspection report with Rivero’s Dania Beach group home’s annual renewal application to APD, he conducted an investigation to determine how it had happened. When Mr. Rivero determined Ms. Vazquez was to blame for the false fire inspection report being submitted with the application, he fired her. The evidence presented indicates Ms. Vazquez created and submitted the falsified fire inspection report in violation of her job duties and professional obligations, and without the knowledge or consent of Mr. Rivero or Rivero.
Recommendation Based on the foregoing Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, it is RECOMMENDED that the Agency for Persons With Disabilities enter a final order dismissing the Administrative Complaint filed against Respondent. DONE AND ENTERED this 17th day of April, 2020, in Tallahassee, Leon County, Florida. S MARY LI CREASY Administrative Law Judge Division of Administrative Hearings The DeSoto Building 1230 Apalachee Parkway Tallahassee, Florida 32399-3060 (850) 488-9675 Fax Filing (850) 921-6847 www.doah.state.fl.us Filed with the Clerk of the Division of Administrative Hearings this 17th day of April, 2020. COPIES FURNISHED: Sean Michael Ellsworth, Esquire Ellsworth Law Firm, P.A. 1000 5th Street, Suite 223 Miami Beach, Florida 33139 (eServed) Trevor S. Suter, Esquire Agency for Persons with Disabilities 4030 Esplanade Way, Suite 380 Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0950 (eServed) Anthony Vitale, Esquire The Health Law Offices of Anthony C. Vitale, P.A. 2333 Brickell Avenue, Suite A-1 Miami, Florida 33129 (eServed) Daniel Ferrante, Esquire Health Law Offices Of Anthony C. Vitale, P.A. 2333 Brickell Avenue, Suite A-1 Miami, Florida 33129 (eServed) Danielle Thompson Senior Attorney/Agency Clerk Agency for Persons with Disabilities 4030 Esplanade Way, Suite 309 Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0950 (eServed) Francis Carbone, General Counsel Agency for Persons with Disabilities 4030 Esplanade Way, Suite 380 Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0950 (eServed) Barbara Palmer, Director Agency for Persons with Disabilities 4030 Esplanade Way, Suite 380 Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0950 (eServed)
Findings Of Fact At all times material hereto, Francis Edward Neuzil, Jr. (Respondent), was certified as a firefighter and firesafety inspector in the State of Florida, holding certificates 7360 and FI-39965, respectively. Respondent's firefighter certification was issued on or about February 22, 1979, and his firesafety inspector certification was issued on or about January 9, 1985. On or about December 20, 1991, Respondent was charged by Information with one count of grand theft in the Circuit Court, Seventeenth Judicial Circuit, Broward County, Florida, in Case No. 91-23492CF10. On or about May 11, 1992, Respondent plead nolo contendere to grand theft for violating Subsection 812.014(1)(a), Florida Statutes, a third degree felony. Adjudication was withheld, and Respondent was placed on 18 months probation with special conditions of 50 hours of community service and no consumption of drugs or alcohol. On or about January 14, 1993, the court terminated Respondent's probation, approximately 10 months prior to the scheduled time for his probation to end. The incident which led to Respondent's felony charge occurred on or about December 7 or 8, 1991, at a Sam's store in Broward County after 11:00 p.m. A sprinkler system was being installed and was sufficiently completed for inspection by a firesafety inspector. Respondent went to Sam's store acting in the capacity of a firesafety inspector. Originally, he had estimated that only 10 minutes would be needed to accomplish his task--check the water gauges--but the sprinkler installers were behind schedule and it took approximately an hour. Prior to arriving at Sam's, Respondent had consumed approximately 10 beers. While waiting to perform the inspection, Respondent, who was not in uniform, walked around in the store, consuming an unknown quantity of beers that he had brought into the store with him. Respondent was observed by an electrical worker and several of Sam's employees who either saw him drinking beer or smelled the alcohol on his person and who either knew who he was or were told by other workers or employees who he was. These same individuals witnessed Respondent take several items to the rear entrance--through which everyone working that night or morning was coming and going--and out of the store. Respondent did not attempt to conceal the items. None of the individuals questioned Respondent about the items or stopped him. However, one employee contacted a Sam's manager who was present. They discovered store items were missing, went to Respondent's vehicle which was parked at the rear entrance, as was everyone else's vehicle, and saw the items inside his vehicle. Law enforcement was called, and Respondent was arrested. All the people who saw Respondent at Sam's store believe that he was intoxicated. Respondent has little or no recollection of the incident, and what he does recall is vague. He does not recall taking the items, all of which were items that he had seen before in Sam's and wanted for the Boy Scouts with whom he volunteers. However, he does recall picking up a light bulb and an electrical cord with no ends to it. As a result of the incident, Respondent was suspended by the Fire Chief of the City of Miramar and has not acted in the capacity as a firesafety inspector since December 1991. Even though Respondent pled nolo contendere to the felony charge of grand theft, mitigating circumstances exist, both at the time of the incident and subsequent thereto. Medically, Respondent is diagnosed as an alcoholic, having the disease alcoholism. During the incident, he suffered an alcoholic blackout and, as a result, has little or no recollection of taking the items. Furthermore, Respondent was incapable of forming the requisite intent to steal the items. Additionally, immediately after the incident, he sought treatment and checked himself into a rehabilitation center. Respondent is now a recovering alcoholic. He regularly attends meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous and is monitored by a sponsor who is also a professional firefighter (10 years) and a recovering alcoholic (approximately six years). Further, since January 1992, Respondent has been receiving medical assistance with his alcoholism. Even though he needs to remain in a recovery program, he does not pose a threat to his profession. 1/ Moreover, during Respondent's career as a firefighter (almost 15 years) and firesafety inspector (almost nine years), his certifications have never been disciplined and he has been actively participating in his community. Through his community involvement, Respondent established the City of Miramar's Fire Prevention Bureau and raised money to fund the Bureau. Additionally, he has received many job-related commendations and service recognitions and he has volunteered extensively to work with service organizations, such as the Boy Scouts. Petitioner's consistent policy is to not consider mitigating factors in disciplinary action against a firesafety inspector's certification. In matters involving a plea of nolo contendere, the consistent policy is that an applicant for firesafety inspector will not be issued a certification and that, if the individual has been issued a certification, Petitioner will seek revocation of the certification, regardless of mitigating circumstances. Petitioner is not seeking to discipline Respondent's certification as a firefighter since his certification, by statute [Section 633.351(2), Florida Statutes], was revoked until termination of his probation which occurred on January 14, 1993.
Recommendation Based upon the foregoing Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, it is RECOMMENDED that Petitioner enter a final order: Suspending Respondent's certification as a firesafety inspector for a period of two years, retroactive to May 11, 1992, the date of Respondent's plea of nolo contendere. Reinstating Respondent's certification at the conclusion of the suspension and thereafter, for a period of one year, placing Respondent's certification on probation under whatever terms and conditions that Petitioner deems just and appropriate. DONE AND ENTERED in Tallahassee, Leon County, Florida, this 16th day of December 1993. ERROL H. POWELL Hearing Officer Division of Administrative Hearings The DeSoto Building 1230 Apalachee Parkway Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1550 (904) 488-9675 Filed with the Clerk of the Division of Administrative Hearings this 16th day of December 1993.
Findings Of Fact Petitioner James T. Steffens is currently employed as Chief of the Oneco-Tallevast Fire Control District located in Manatee County and has been so employed since June 1, 1982. The fire control district covers approximately 26 square miles southeast of Bradenton, and includes residential and commercial developments and some rural areas. The district employs six firefighters who, along with Petitioner, work a normal 3:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M., Monday through Friday, work week. There are 28 volunteer firemen in the district who provide most of the firefighting services for the district. The career personnel are hired primarily to supplement the volunteer group during the ordinary work week. However, they and the Petitioner are also volunteer firefighters. During the period of his employment, Petitioner has taken charge of firefighting on six or seven instances, one of which occurred during his normal hours of employment. (Testimony of Steffens) Petitioner was hired as a result of a screening and interview process by the Board of Commissioners of the Oneco- Tallevast Fire Control District. They were interested in a person who could unify factions within the district and modernize district procedures. The Board of Commissioners was more interested in Petitioner's administrative skills rather than his qualifications as a firefighter. However, it was aware from prior communications with Respondent's personnel that either a certified firefighter should be hired, or if not, that the individual hired would have to be certified in Florida. Petitioner primarily performs administrative functions, such as personnel and budget matters, training and scheduling of personnel, procurement of supplies, and scheduling of fire inspection and prevention programs. Actual fire inspections are conducted by the district fire marshal. (Testimony of Petitioner, Skinner) Respondent's form FST-1 "Qualification of New Employee," was filed on behalf of Petitioner in June 1982 by Raymond F. Skinner, Jr., Secretary- Treasurer, Board of Commissioners, Oneco-Tallevast Fire Control District. The form reflected that Petitioner had completed the equivalency examination at the State Fire College, Ocala, Florida, on July 11, 1977, and the Report of Physical Examination that accompanied the form showed that he had no physical abnormalities. Upon inquiry by Respondent as to a discrepancy on the physical examination report that reflected Petitioner had adequate visual acuity, as compared to a prior medical report received by the Department showing that his uncorrected vision in the right eye was 20/200 and in the left eye, 20/400, the examining physician advised the Respondent that the earlier eye examination should be deemed correct. (Respondent's Exhibits 1-2) By letter of October 5, 1982, Mr. Skinner was advised by the Office of the State Fire Marshal that Petitioner could not be certified because he did not meet the requirements of pertinent law and regulations as to visual acuity, and also due to the fact that he had a "noticeable limp." Specifically, he was advised that Section 633.34(5), Florida Statutes, required that "Any person initially employed as a firefighter must be in good physical condition as determined by a medical examination as prescribed by the division," and that Rule 4A-37.37, Florida Administrative Code, implementing the statutory provision, provided in subsection (3) for adoption of the standards of NFPA 1001 (1974). The letter further stated that NFPA 1001, Chapter 2-2.7.2(b), provided that standard visual acuity, without correction, of less than 20/40 in one eye, and 20/100 in the other eye, was cause for rejection for appointment, and that Chapter 2-2.6.2.4(d) provided that shortening of a lower extremity resulting in any limp of noticeable degree was also cause for rejection. Subsequent to receipt of the letter from Respondent, Petitioner requested an administrative hearing. (Respondent's Exhibit 1) Petitioner does not meet the visual acuity standards set forth in the above-cited law and regulations in that his uncorrected eyesight is 20/200 in his right eye and 20/400 in his left eye. (Respondent's Exhibit 1-2, Stipulation) Respondent's ground for rejection of certification because Petitioner has a "noticeable limp" was based solely on observation of Petitioner by Mr. Raymond Schaffner, Program Coordinator for Fire Standards, Office of the State Fire Marshal. However, Mr. Schaffner has no knowledge of Petitioner having a shortening of either leg, nor is there any medical evidence in that regard. Although he is of the opinion that a person with a limp would have difficulty as a firefighter carrying heavy weights on stairs, or maintaining control on a ladder with his legs to free his hands, he is unaware of any actual limitations that Petitioner might have in this regard. (Testimony of Schaffner) Petitioner concedes that he has a slight limp, but can offer no medical explanation for it. He purchases trousers which have the same inseam for both legs. The problem becomes more pronounced if he becomes overweight. It has never hampered his sports activities in the past, or his prior activities as a volunteer firefighter since 1956. In 1977, he successfully completed the equivalency examination at the State Fire College in Ocala, which required that he perform field "evolutions" or practical exercises in firefighting. Although they do not necessarily test an individual's endurance, Petitioner participated in advancing heavy hoses and carried a man down from a ladder during his equivalency examination. He has performed "leg locks" on ladders "hundreds of times" in the past. (Testimony of Schaffner, Petitioner) Volunteer firefighters are not required to be certified by the state. However, Respondent's interpretation of applicable statutes is that the employed chief of a fire control district must be certified if he meets the definition of "firefighters" set forth in Section 633.31, Florida Statutes. (Testimony of Schaffner, Stark)
Recommendation That Petitioner James T. Steffens be determined unqualified for employment and certification as a firefighter pursuant to Chapter 633, Florida Statutes. DONE and ENTERED this 3 day of 1983, in Tallahassee, Florida. THOMAS C. OLDHAM Hearing Officer Division of Administrative Hearings The Oakland Building 2009 Apalachee Parkway Tallahassee, Florida 32301 (904) 488-9675 Filed with the Clerk of the Division of Administrative Hearings this 3rd day of May, 1983. COPIES FURNISHED: Richard W. Gross, Esquire Post Office Box 1302 Hialeah, Florida 33011 Susan E. Koch and Dennis Silverman, Esquires Department of Insurance 413-B Larson Building Tallahassee, Florida 32301 The Honorable William Gunter State Treasurer and Insurance Commissioner The Capitol Tallahassee, Florida 32301
The Issue Whether or not Respondents improperly serviced portable fire extinguishers and pre-engineered fire suppression systems as specifically alleged in the administrative complaints filed herein on October 8 and November 4, 1992.
Findings Of Fact During times material herein, Respondent Polk Fire Extinguisher Service, Inc. and its owner, Ira Devon Canady, was a licensed dealer for portable extinguishers and pre-engineered systems for fire protection and prevention. During times material hereto, Respondent Floyd E. Nicks, was a permittee for the servicing of portable extinguishers and pre-engineered systems. On or about January 29, 1992, Respondent Polk caused its licensed permittee, James G. Boykin, an employee under Respondent Polk's direct supervision and control, to service a pre-engineered fire suppression system at the Highway 27 truck stop in Lake Wales, Florida. On March 14, 1992, a fire started in the kitchen area of the truck stop. On March 17, 1992, Investigator Phillip J. Gruda, an employee in the fire sprinkler industry in excess of 26 years, was summoned to investigate the fire which occurred in the restaurant (kitchen area) of the truck stop wherein the fire suppression system failed to function as designed. Investigator Gruda immediately initiated his investigation. He noted that a fire started in the kitchen. The fire origin was in the area of the range hood which became completely engulfed in flames and the suppression system did not activate. The fire suppression system which was installed in the hood of the oven utilizes a fusible link which melts when exposed to intense heat. The melted link sets off an ignitor which lets the fire retardant powder from the system extinguish the fire. An examination of the system revealed that the control head was twisted and the cable which connects the fusible link and the remote pull station was twisted preventing the system from discharging. Investigator Gruda also discovered that the cable had dislodged from the pulley extending from the control head which further prevented the system from firing. On approximately January 29, 1992, Respondent Polk used its agent/permittee, Boykin, to also service two portable extinguishers at the truck stop in Lake Wales. Permittee Boykin failed to perform the required six-year maintenance on portable fire extinguisher No. 873430; failed to discover that the gauge on said extinguisher indicated it had discharged; failed to discover that the extinguisher had leaked and to remove the old label from the extinguisher; failed to perform the hydrostatic test on the extinguisher and placed an incorrect serial number on the service tag. Also, Boykin did not leak test the extinguisher. The above-referenced extinguisher failed to discharge during the fire on March 14, 1992 at the truck stop. On or about December 19, 1990, Respondent Polk caused its agent/permittee, Floyd E. Nicks, an employee under Respondent Polk's direct supervision and control, to service a pre-engineered system at the truck stop in Lake Wales. Respondent Nicks was dispatched to perform a six-year service maintenance on the system and at Respondent Polk's direction, used a generic BC powder instead of the required safety first specified powder thereby invalidating the underwriter's laboratory (UL) listing. During December, 1990, Respondent Nicks also failed to perform the required hydrostatic test for cylinder No. 24991 which was part of the pre- engineered system at the truck stop. Respondent, by its agent and employee Boykin, during December, 1991, serviced a pre-engineered system at the Lone Palm Country Club in Lakeland. Agent Boykin failed to properly service the system and investigations by Gruda subsequently revealed the following violations: S-4 Venturi was missing over the char- broiler appliance tee. Incorrect duct nozzles and plenum nozzles. Six elbows were used to connect the yoke instead of the specified five. The pipeline limits did not meet specifi- cation. The system was not piped in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. The duct nozzle was not centered. The filters were not baffled and "range guard" corner pulleys were used instead of "safety first" as specified. Based on these violations, the gas charbroiler was not properly protected by the fire suppression system. On or about July 31, 1991, the parties entered a consent order against Respondent Polk wherein Respondent was placed on probation for one year. One condition of probation set forth in the Consent Order was that Respondent Polk would strictly adhere to all provisions of Chapter 633, Florida Statutes and rules and regulations promulgated thereunder.
Recommendation Based on the foregoing findings of facts and conclusions of law, it is RECOMMENDED that: Petitioner enter a final order revoking the licenses and permits of Respondents Polk Fire Extinguisher Service, Inc., Ira Devon Canady and Floyd E. Nicks. RECOMMENDED this 2nd day of August, 1993, in Tallahassee, Florida. JAMES E. BRADWELL Hearing Officer Division of Administrative Hearings The DeSoto Building 1230 Apalachee Parkway Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1550 (904) 488-9675 Filed with the Clerk of the Division of Administrative Hearings this 2nd day of August, 1993. APPENDIX TO THE RECOMMENDED ORDER IN CASE NO. 92-6551 and 92-0023 Ruling on Petitioner's proposed findings of fact. Paragraph 8, rejected as being a conclusion. COPIES FURNISHED: Tom Gallagher, State Treasurer and Insurance Commissioner Department of Insurance and Treasurer The Capitol, Plaza Level 11 Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0300 Bill O'Neill, General Counsel Department of Insurance and Treasurer The Capitol, Plaza Level Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0300 Daniel T. Gross, Esquire Division of Legal Services Department of Insurance and Treasurer 612 Larson Building Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0300 Ira Devon Canady, Owner Polk Fire Extinguisher Services, Inc. Post Office Box 384 Lakeland, Florida 33801 Floyd E. Nicks, pro se 1137 Carlton Lake Wales, Florida 33853
The Issue The issue for determination in this proceeding is whether the proposed amendment to Florida Administrative Code Rule 69A-39.005(1)(b)2.d. is an invalid exercise of legislatively granted authority in violation of section 120.52(8)(b), (c), (e), and (f), Florida Statutes (2020).
Findings Of Fact The Parties Respondent, Department of Financial Services, Division of State Fire Marshal, is headed by the Chief Financial Officer of the state, who serves as the Chief Fire Marshal pursuant to section 603.104(1), Florida Statutes. The State Fire Marshal is charged with the responsibility to minimize the loss of life and property in Florida due to fire, and to adopt rules, which must “be in substantial conformity with generally accepted standards of firesafety; must take into consideration the direct supervision of children in nonresidential child care facilities; and must balance and temper the need of the State Fire Marshal to protect all Floridians from fire hazards with the social and economic inconveniences that may be caused or created by the rules.” § 633.104(1), Fla. Stat. Petitioner is a Florida corporation authorized by the Department to offer fire certification training courses in both online and blended learning formats. A blended learning course is one that has both online and in-person components. The blended learning courses Petitioner currently offers have 37 hours of online learning and eight hours of in-person instruction to address those portions of the course that may need “hands on” instruction. Section 633.216, Florida Statutes, requires Respondent to certify fire safety inspectors, and to provide by rule for the development of a fire safety inspector training program of at least 200 hours. The program developed by Department rule must be administered by education or training providers approved by the Department for the purpose of providing basic certification training for fire safety inspectors. § 633.216(2), (8), Fla. Stat. Current Certification Requirements Section 633.406 identifies several certifications in the fire safety arena that may be awarded by the Division of State Fire Marshal: firefighter, for those meeting the requirements in section 633.408(4); fire safety inspector, for those meeting the requirements in section 633.216(2); special certification, for those meeting the requirements in section 633.408(6); forestry certification, for those meeting the requirements of section 590.02(1)(e); fire service instructor, for those who demonstrate general or specialized knowledge, skills, and abilities in firefighting and meet the qualifications established by rule; certificate of competency, for those meeting certain requirements with special qualifications for particular aspects of firefighting service; and volunteer fire fighter certifications. In order to become a fire safety officer, an applicant must take the courses outlined in rule 69A-39.005, and pass an examination with a score of 70% or higher. The five courses as listed in the current version of rule 69A- 39.005 are Fire Inspection Practices; Private Protection Systems; Blue Print Reading and Plans Examinations (also known as Construction Documents and Plans Review); Codes and Standards; and Characteristics of Building Construction. The Rulemaking Process On November 5, 2015, the Department held the first of a series of rule workshops and “listening sessions” as it began the process for making changes in the certification program for fire safety inspectors.1 These workshops and listening sessions were held on November 5, 2015; July 10, 2016; November 10, 2016; January 17, 2017; August 8, 2018; November 8, 2018; and October 29, 2019. As described by Mark Harper, who is now the assistant superintendent of the Bureau of Fire Standards and Training at the Florida State Fire College, the Bureau conducted the first few listening sessions to hear the industry’s view on what changes were needed, followed by drafting proposed rule language and conduct of rule workshops. 1 Curiously, neither party introduced the notices for any of these workshops or listening sessions, so how notice was provided to interested persons wanting to give input on possible changes cannot be determined. The first workshop/listening session was conducted on November 5, 2015, in Palm Beach Gardens, and was moderated by Mark Harper. At this workshop, a variety of comments were received regarding the quality of the existing program and the quality of the fire safety inspectors being certified. Those comments included the need for more field training and more hours of instruction; suggested use of a “task book” in training; the view that classes should be taught by more experienced inspectors, not just people who have passed the classes; and the need for more practical training. The view was expressed by at least one attendee that the quality and method of delivery needed to be examined, and that Codes and Standards and Construction Documents and Plans Review should not be taught online. In December 2015, Tony Apfelbeck, the Fire Marshal for Altamonte Springs, provided to Mr. Harper proposed draft revisions to chapter 69A-39, which included increasing the number of training hours to 315 hours (as opposed to the 200 hours required by section 633.216), and requiring use of a task book, as well as other changes. The draft did not include any language regarding course methodology in terms of classroom, online, or blended format classes. At the next workshop, held July 10, 2016, a draft proposal was provided to the audience, but it is not clear whether the draft provided is the one Mr. Apfelbeck suggested or something else. Concerns were expressed regarding the implementation of the use of a task book, and at least one speaker speaking against the suggested changes opined that the changes suggested in the draft would cost more money. Another commented that increasing the hours may not help the issue. Instead, there should be a greater emphasis on the quality of the educational delivery, and that instruction needed to be tied more closely to field work. Late in the workshop, comments were made regarding online and classroom delivery, and it was suggested that some classes should not be held online. While the drafts that were provided at the various workshops are not in the record, at some point, language was added that would require two of the five courses for fire safety certification, i.e., Codes and Standards and Construction Documents and Plans Review, be taught in a traditional classroom setting only. The subject of online classes was discussed more thoroughly at the next workshop held November 10, 2016. During this workshop, there were comments both in favor of and against the use of online classes. While the speakers cannot always be identified from the recordings of the workshops, some attendees stated that some of the online providers were doing a really good job, and the concern was raised that if online classes were eliminated, it might be an exchange of convenience for quality.2 At least one person expressed the opinion that the speaker was not a fan of online classes, and Mr. Harper suggested that blended learning might be a way to meet some of the concerns expressed, and that the method of delivery would be up to the institution. Others who participated in the workshop spoke highly of blended classes. The remaining workshops also had discussions regarding the online class change, as well as other changes in the proposed rule. Opinions were voiced on both sides of the issue. The primary source of comments seeking a traditional classroom setting only were fire marshals at various municipalities around the state concerned about the need for “hands-on” training and the current lack of preparation encountered with new staff. On July 10, 2019, the Department filed a Notice of Proposed Rules for rules 69A-39.003, 39.005, and 39.009. The proposed rule amendments included the following amendment to rule 69A-39.005(1)(b)2.d.: d. The courses “Codes and Standards” and “Construction Documents and Plans Review” 2 The identity of the speakers is not important, and the comments are not relayed for the truth of the statements made. They are listed simply to show that the Department heard several viewpoints during these listening sessions. required under this paragraph (1)(b) will only be approved by the Bureau when taught in a traditional classroom delivery method. No definition for “traditional classroom delivery method” is provided. On January 15, 2020, Respondent conducted a public hearing on the proposed rule. As was the case with the workshops, people voiced both support and opposition to the proposal to require a traditional classroom setting for the Codes and Standards and Construction Documents and Plans Review courses. Counsel for Petitioner appeared and spoke against the proposed language to eliminate online and blended learning for the two classes, and asked whether any type of data existed to support the change in the rule, or whether any type of study had been conducted to gauge the need for the change. Respondent’s representative stated that the proposed language was based upon “extensive testimony” from employers requesting the change. Counsel also asked that Respondent consider defining what is meant by traditional classroom delivery. No such definition has been added to the rule. The Notice of Proposed Rule does not include a Statement of Estimated Regulatory Costs. Instead, it states: The Agency has determined that this will not have an adverse impact on small business or likely increase directly or indirectly regulatory costs in excess of $200,000 in the aggregate within one year after the implementation of the rule. A SERC has not been prepared by the Agency. The Agency has determined that the proposed rule is not expected to require legislative ratification based on the statement of regulatory costs or if no SERC is required, the information expressly relied upon and described herein: The Department’s economic analysis of the potential impact of the proposed rule amendments determined that there will be no adverse economic impact or increased regulatory costs that would require legislative ratification. Any person who wishes to provide information regarding a statement of estimated regulatory costs, or provide a proposal for a lower cost regulatory alternative must do so within 21 days of this Notice. Petitioner addressed the increased costs under the proposed rule during at least one of the workshops. There is no evidence, however, that Petitioner submitted, in writing, a proposal for a lower cost regulatory alternative within 21 days of the Notice of Proposed Rule. On January 27, 2020, Petitioner filed its Petition to Challenge Specific Changes to Proposed Rule 69A-39.005(1)(b)2.d. The Petition is timely filed. Current Online Providers and Course Review Process As of April 10, 2020, there are approximately 20 organizations approved by the Bureau of Fire Standards and Training that offer distance learning delivery for courses in programs leading to a certification pursuant to rule 69A-37.605. Of those providers, two are approved to teach Codes and Standards and three are approved to teach Construction Documents and Plans Review. In addition, as of June 1, 2020, there are 13 state colleges and/or universities in Florida also approved to provide distance learning. Of those, ten are approved to offer Codes and Standards, and ten are approved to offer Construction Documents and Plans Review. Petitioner has been approved to teach these two courses in a blended format since at least 2015. It also has articulation agreements with some educational institutions, including Waldorf University in Iowa, and Columbia Southern University in Alabama. The Department previously sought to take action against Ricky Rescue related to the type of courses taught, although the statutory basis for taking action against Ricky Rescue is not part of the evidence presented in this proceeding. The Consent Order entered to resolve the prior proceeding expressly provides, “Respondents agree that they will not offer any on-line courses until such time as they obtain approval from the Bureau, which will not be unreasonably withheld.” In order to be approved to teach any of the courses for certification in an online or blended format, a provider is required to go through an extensive review process. Initially, Respondent used a Quality Matters Higher Education Rubric to evaluate the courses a provider sought to offer. Course approvals initially took anywhere from four months to a year and a half to meet the standards and be approved. Respondent no longer uses the Quality Matters rubric, because it has transitioned to the accreditation process used by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools. With this change, the length of time for class approvals has shortened considerably. Susan Schell used to be the Department’s Training Programs Manager and was in charge of the review and approval of classes for online learning. She has since moved on to another position within the Department. Ms. Schell would take the submitted course herself, view the different videos and discussion boards, and work through some of the projects, as well as review some of the case discussions and questions. Ricky Rescue’s courses that she reviewed met all of the state requirements to be approved. According to Ms. Schell, classes taught in the traditional format did not go through the same review process. Ricky Rescue’s accreditation verification from AdvancED Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Council on Accreditation and School Improvement indicated that Ricky Rescue’s accreditation was confirmed on March 31, 2017, for a five-year term expiring June 30, 2022. There is no credible dispute regarding whether Ricky Rescue complies with the requirements for offering its courses in a blended format. The report of the external review team prepared by AdvancED Education, Inc., noted that the school’s website is exemplary and stated in its conclusions: Once a month, students attend a day on site blended learning instruction where students can collaborate and complete and present projects. Given that the owners are brother fire fighters, there is a genuine feeling of camaraderie and collegiality. It is apparent to the Team that the Ricky Rescue Training Academy is an ideal institutional opportunity to obtain classes for firefighter training and certification classes. … The school has embraced the continuous improvement model to insure that they continue to deliver high quality online educational programs with rigor, relevance, and fidelity. Two Different Views Petitioner and Respondent approached the proposed rule amendment, both at the workshops and public hearing conducted by the Department and at the hearing in this proceeding, from different perspectives. Ricky Rescue focused on the needs and opinions of students seeking to take the courses. Its witnesses testified that the blended courses had significant substantive content; that the in-person component gave the necessary opportunity for completion of group projects and hands-on instruction or field trips; and that the ability to complete the course at any time during a 30-day period was essential in terms of both costs and scheduling for the student, and completing the classes while managing job and family responsibilities. For example, Ryan Russell has worked for over ten years in the fire service and is a battalion chief for the Haines City Fire Department. He has a variety of certifications and oversaw the training division for his department. Mr. Ryan has taken five courses from Ricky Rescue, and speaks highly of them. Mr. Ryan agrees that there are some advantages to traditional classroom settings, because they provide more opportunities for engagement, but that ultimately, a class is only as good as the instructor. Similarly, Robert Morgan is also a battalion chief at another fire department, and took Documents and Plans Review from Ricky Rescue. Mr. Morgan believed that the online blended course is just as good as a traditional classroom setting, and believes that in the blended setting, a student has to work harder than just sitting at the back of the classroom. Both men spoke of the convenience and accessibility that online learning provides that a traditional classroom does not. Matthew Trent also testified in favor of the availability of online and blended courses. Mr. Trent has a master’s degree in public administration and is a Ph.D. student in public policy administration. He is also a certified state firefighter II; pump operator; Fire Officer I, II, III, and IV; fire inspector I and II; fire investigator I; and fire life safety educator I. About half of Mr. Trent’s certifications have been based on classes taken online, and all of his classes for his masters’ and doctoral degrees have been online. Mr. Trent felt both courses at issue could be taught in an online format, and stated that both as a student and as an instructor, it is up to the student to choose the delivery method by which they want to learn. If not for online learning, he would not have been able to accomplish nearly as much in his professional life, because distance learning gives the student the ability to work around other responsibilities. The Department, on the other hand, was influenced more heavily by (and sought information from) the fire safety officials across the state who employ fire safety inspectors. Many of those officials spoke at the public workshops and some testified at hearing. The major concern voiced by these officials was that new fire safety inspectors certified by the state were not really prepared to do their job. Although most acknowledged that some on the job training would always be necessary to deal with local codes and ordinances that are not part of the state curriculum, they felt that new inspectors did not have a good grasp of the concepts necessary to be effective, especially with respect to the skills taught in the classes at issue in this case. For example, Anthony Apfelbeck is the Director of the Building and Fire Safety Department for the City of Altamonte Springs. He has worked in that department for approximately 20 years and served as Fire Marshal for a significant portion of his tenure there, and served in other cities as well. Mr. Apfelbeck has an impressive array of certifications and currently supervises approximately eight fire safety inspectors. He attended almost all of the workshops and was an active participant. Mr. Apfelbeck testified that he concurred with the State Fire Marshal’s Association that both classes should be offered only in a traditional classroom environment. He stated that there is a limited period of time to get someone trained and certified as a fire safety inspector, and he has seen some of the deficiencies in the current training. In his view, requiring these two classes to be given in a traditional classroom environment allows the instructor to keep the student engaged, and to get into critical thinking with probing questions and real-life examples. Instructors can have interactions with students that address issues the students may be having in the students’ jurisdictions, and read the body language of the students to gauge involvement. He also spoke of the ability to develop relationships with other individuals in the class and develop a peer group within that body. Mr. Apfelback has used the virtual environment extensively during the COVID-19 pandemic, and does not feel that it has the spontaneity and free- flow of information that a traditional classroom affords. Mr. Apfelbeck has not taken any of Ricky Rescue’s classes, and does not know what it has done to make sure its students get 200 hours of education. Likewise, he is not aware of the review Ricky Rescue went through to get its courses approved. He stated, correctly, that the rule is not written specifically about Ricky Rescue’s programs. It is written for all educational programs that are provided pursuant to this rule. Michael Tucker is the assistant superintendent for the State Fire Marshal’s Office. His experience includes serving as battalion chief for the Reedy Creek Improvement District (i.e., Disney) for 13 years, and serving as the Chief of the Fire Department for the Villages for 13 years. He has taught fire safety classes both in the classroom setting and online. While at Reedy Creek, he was the training officer responsible for providing training to fire inspectors, firefighters, paramedics, and EMTs. Mr. Tucker believes that the two classes addressed in the proposed rule are very intricate classes with a lot of detail. He believes that the traditional environment gives more opportunity for students to get hands-on instruction and have more interaction with the instructor. He acknowledged that there is a possibility that fees could increase under the proposed rule, but thinks that the increased cost is outweighed by the value that employers would get when they hire people trained in a classroom setting. Cheryl Edwards is the Fire Marshal for the City of Lakeland, and her views regarding traditional versus online learning are similar to those already expressed. She believes that the traditional classroom environment promotes collaborative learning and enhances critical thinking skills, through live discussions, and the need to think on your feet. She also felt that in person, an instructor is better able to gauge students’ learning styles and provide activities and modalities for all to learn, regardless of learning style. Ms. Edwards believes that the traditional classroom setting allows for more “teachable moments,” and guided practice before a student has to put that knowledge into use. Finally, David Abernathy is the Fire Chief of the City of Satellite Beach and has worked with the City for 35 years. Mr. Abernathy has an impressive list of certifications and has taught all five of the courses necessary for fire safety inspector certification, but has never taught them in an online or blended learning format. Mr. Abernathy believes that for these two courses there is a benefit to the traditional classroom setting. He believes that both classes need a hands-on approach to be the most effective. Mr. Abernathy also believes that requiring these two courses to be taught in a traditional classroom setting will cost more, but as an employer is more willing to pay for it than for online classes. Mark Harper testified that during the workshops, the Department wanted to hear from everyone, because all would be impacted by the changes. However, he believes that there is a heavier weight of responsibility on employers as opposed to students, because they are the ones trying to fill positions, and they are the ones having to deal with additional costs occasioned by failures in training. As a practical matter, employers are more cognizant of the potential liability jurisdictions face when a fire safety inspector, who looks at everything from mom and pop businesses to industrial sites with large containers of hazardous materials, is not adequately trained. The decision to go forward with the proposed rule amendment requiring a traditional classroom delivery method with respect to Codes and Standards and Construction Documents and Plans Review is based on the feedback received through the workshop process. It is not based on data. The Department does not track how students who took certification classes online or in a blended format score on the certification examination as opposed to students who took the same classes in a traditional setting. It would be difficult to collect that type of data, because there is no requirement that a student take all five courses the same way. In preparation for the hearing in this case, the Department conducted a survey of employers regarding their views on traditional versus distance learning. The Florida Fire Marshals and Inspectors Association distributed the survey to its members, and of the 358 addressees, 114 responded. There was no evidence to indicate that the Department attempted to survey people taking the classes. The questions asked in the survey were quite limited, and frankly, provide no guidance because they provide only two alternatives, and do not address blended learning formats at all. There are three questions, and they are as follows, with the responses in parentheses: Is there is current need to increase the proficiency of newly certified Firesafety Inspectors in Florida? Yes (59.65%) No (16.67%) Neutral opinion (12.68%) When a prospective Firesafety Inspector attends a Codes and Standards class, which class setting would produce a more proficient inspector? Traditional classroom delivery method (71.17%) Online (distance learning ) delivery method (9.91%) Neutral opinion (18.92%) When a prospective Firesafety Inspector attends a Construction Documents and Plans Review Class, which class setting would produce a more proficient instructor? Traditional classroom (76.32%) Online (7.02%) Neutral opinion (16.67%) Questions two and three assume that one format must be better than the other, rather than allowing for the possibility of equivalency. Had there been some recognition of a blended learning format, the answers might be different. The survey was informative in terms of the comments that were provided by the respondents. Similar to the views expressed at the workshops, there were strong opinions both in favor of limiting the classes to the traditional setting, and strong opinions advocating for the option of online learning. Petitioner presented information related to the increased costs that will be incurred should the rule go in effect. Those costs include the need for space rental for five-day periods in order to teach in multiple locations; the costs related to conversion of the material to a classroom setting versus online; and the need to pay instructors for more days each time the course is taught. It does not appear from the evidence presented that Ricky Rescue would experience increased costs of $200,000 in one year. However, Ricky Rescue is just one provider, and section 120.54 speaks in terms of an increase in costs in the aggregate, meaning as a whole. It is not known whether the other approved providers who teach these two courses will continue to do so should the rule be amended to require a classroom setting. It is also unknown what types of costs would be borne by state colleges and universities in order to recast the courses for traditional classroom settings. Finally, the litigants to this proceeding were well aware that this rule was being developed and was noticed as a proposed rule before the world began to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic. It is open to speculation whether some of the impetus to require a traditional classroom setting would have changed in light of the changes society has had to make over the last six months. Department employees were questioned regarding the Fire College’s response to the pandemic, and both Mark Harper and Michael Tucker testified about the precautions being taken on the campus to insure safety, such as taking temperatures, having students complete a questionnaire regarding possible exposure, limiting the number of students per class, and spacing people six feet apart to maintain effective social distancing. Mr. Tucker testified that they would be ready to postpone some classes until they could be taught safely in person. When asked whether Respondent would consider postponing the effective date of the proposed rule, he indicated “that would be something we would have to take into consideration, and again, the feedback from our constituents, but if it became necessary, then we would consider it.”
